Pitfalls of PayPal To Sellers
In our case it was a huge (hundreds) lot of assorted & vintage costume jewelry. And even though we had tons of photos & documentation on our side which showed the ID’s maker marks, names with history; not to mention our disclaimer which clearly stated these items were sold “as is” with no guarantee for use or resale & no refund/return we still got scammed. The Buyer made a quick payment to PP, but within few hours actually phoned us (inappropriate) to say she forgot insurance, played dumb, said she was new buying jewelry & how to make the insurance pay. Being niave we hadn’t yet checked her feedback to see if there were previous history problems with other sellers.We spoke briefly said add on to PP & items were already & seperately packed for protection. Items shipped promptly & were received within week. Upon receipt, she again phoned us to ask if all had been shipped (30 lbs). To which Red flag #1 went up for us. Of course all was shipped together, why? She said she had “JUST” started to unpack & was dumping out into 2 piles on carpet floor & not finding all the gold stated in the listing. #1 she had just opened the box & hadn’t gone thru all 490 pieces of jewelry. She said she was overwhelmed at the sheer numbers of items & didn’t know if lot was worth keeping as she only bought it for the gold! Red Flag #2. We stated why would anyone buy a huge lot of assorted costume with stones & other materials if all they wanted was gold? At any rate we told her it was all there & to go thru it all before contacting us. We suggested using a jewelers loop as we had prior to listing (which is how we knew what to describe & list). She was reminded the list details of “as is costume with no guarantee for use or resale” & that the auction was not “gold” but assorted costume with no return/refund. Few hours later she phoned again & played dumb saying she couldn’t find the gold. At this point we checked her Feedback & found she had several negs in short time claiming misrep on sellers. She had high feedback for score for buying only, in short time frame & this was Red Flag #3. We made contact with eBay live help & explained this as a case of Buyers Remorse what to do, said we were feeling like being scammed to which they had us contact T&S for help. Not 2 hours later we received email from Buyer who said she wanted to ship entire lot back, couldn’t find what she wanted in the lot & asked if she could keep what she wanted/found, & we could refund her partial. Red Flag #4. We responded by saying the sale was for all & no refund partial or otherwise. She emailed again saying what she wanted to keep & began to state there were only so many “gold” items there, not all claiming mis rep on our part. We responded to say refer to the listing descript with the photos as guide. It WAS all there. Meanwhile T&S made contact, said to tell her they were helping us & looking into what could be done about this unfolding situation. We emailed & told her to give us time, T&S was helping us. Red flag #4: she had emailed us 3 times in 1.5 hours time trying to make various claims on counts, & prices for partial sales & refunds to the lot! Yup SCAM. She emailed fired back angry we contacted Trust & Safety and at this point we were notified by PP she had opened a dispute for “not as described” against us. All this happened within 12 hours time frame. We were only able to respond once in PP before she escalated to refund. Cutting us off completely. We could only call & talk to customer service regarding fraud claims by this buyer. We supplied by email copy & fax all documents pertaining to what her history was. We had contacted ALL the other Sellers asking to hear from them what happened with her purchases from them. And over several weeks we began hearing from these other sEllers as to how she scammed them the same way using PP for refund. Most of them didn’t even get their items returned. Some items got switched out for cheap knock offs prior to being returned. All horror stories surrounding this woman. We kept in touch with T&S & even forwarded all info to them. They forwarded all info supporting our case as well to PP for investigation. We were told by PP that in cases of lots especially jewelry that they required the Bueyr to prove case of not as described. That Buyer would have to take items to licensed jeweler & pay to have checked. Nearly 8 weeks later & in the end PP never made this Buyer provide any proof, & tired of all the calls back & forth they chose to refund blindly to this Buyer & informed her she had to return the entire lot as was sent before they would refund. She returned the items, but they were all loose in box tangled up in huge mess. By the time we took pictures of all as we unpacked, untangled. We found several items (41) now missing from orig lot. Several damaged goods, several missing precious stones & identifying backers (to the gold) & to insult us more (& stupid of her) she had placed an envelope in box which said “gold I found” to which had 9 supposed gold pieces; 5 of which were marked sterling silver on card in manufacture blister packs unopened. We took our proof of fraud to our local & state Police & filed the proper reports & one report faxed to PP clearly told them to do a federal investigation on this person do to the scam she had been running on eBay & PP. In the end PP ignored all documentation sent them. They ignored the police reports, they ignored us & gave the refund anyway. This buyer had then changed email addresses & went underground. She dropped off the radar on eBay immediately. Calling PP to complain about the refund & why they didn’t follow their own guide rules for dispute went no where. We were told an investigator would contact us, but to this day when we call they say someone will call and no one ever has. The only way for us to get justice is by filing a small claim against this buyer. Since she has several P.O. Box #s and can’t be found therewon’t be any refund to get. We can’t get our missing jewelry back. And the only thing that we might accomplish is to force eBay to remove her slanderous negative feedback against us that she was wrongfully allowed to make.
Most fraud Buyers know when it gets too hot, they close it down & move on. They do this with the blessing of eBay & PP. Anyone can open any # of accounts on eBay & in PP using different user name IDs. They can give false addresses phones and are not checked out. They can use seized member name accounts, fraud credit cards, bad checks. And you, the Seller is the one who will pay for their abuse. If you really want to know what’s going on in the eBay PayPal system you so blindly trust when you sign up; if you really want to see just how little protection you have as a seller, go to this site that was referred to me by several Power Sellers. Its called PayPalSucks.com After checking it out we found it is totally legitimate. Thousands and thousands of complaints by sellers & some buyers alike who have been screwed by the system. BBB has banned PP from their site as having way too many complaints against them for fraud refunds. They have been suied many time by individual & class action claims for fraud refunds & bad business practices. They have also been the subject of Prime time journalist stories over past few years because of the bad business practices & real lack of security to their members they claim they protect so well.If you take a look at the growing number of sellers on eBay. More & more are refusing to use PayPal for accepting payment. Others are using alternate merchant services. Some have just gotten fed up & closed their member accounts. The support when we Sellers need it the most is never there. People, we have to learn to better protect ourselves if offering PP as payment method. Check the bidders Feedback first. If you see problems in their history (don’t be afraid to look all the way back) then cancel the bid. Take better pictures which help support the written details. Use or don’t use PayPal. Although now only those who were selling members prior to 2007 are allowed (much to eBays/PPs dissatisfaction) to remove that as main pay method. All “newbies” are required to accept PP for main pay or they can’t sell. We say, what a crock. Why should we be forced to use a service we pay for who only turns around and abuses us in the end. They ignore us, they challenge us at every turn. They change the agreement to fit their whims & needs whenever they feel like it. And allow fraud buyers to abound in large numbers leaving our private and personal information out there for anyone to get ahold of and abuse. As I said, check out the site I referred to earlier. It’s a REAL EYE OPENER! Not just for the honest Sellers out here, but also could help the honest Buers as well! What I do know is this: If eBay stays complacent & hides in the shadows. And PayPal continues to refund blindly & abuse us, we Sellers will all eventually leave. If there are NO Sellers to sell. There won’t be any Buyers to buy & eBay & PP will fold. Leaving all the good honest folks to go elsewhere for fun & shopping.